Michael Stuart: Could Losing Duclair be Tierney's Blessing in Disguise?

I like Tierny, but I think the team certainly sees him as a placeholder for the younger centers going forward.

He certainly should help tranistion Brown/Norris/Stuzle this season. I wouldn't hate to have seen him stay on the team as a 3rd line center going forward, but I think it is
very likely he gets claimed, or at the very least exposed to Seattle expansion

Tierney is a good quality player. Fits into depth chart more easily than any other centre on the Sens roster.

Are Brown or Norris able to handle the role of a #1?

I believe Duclair should have signed, perhaps he will end up in Mtl.

....it has been so long since watching Sens hockey, i am forgetting how the players preformed. I could look up stats but prefer the on ice opinion.

Lets get this next season start date cemented and start getting this team on the ice. I am looking forward to seeing the Sens this season.

Tierney is a good quality player. Fits into depth chart more easily than any other centre on the Sens roster.

Are Brown or Norris able to handle the role of a #1?
- spatso

On a developing team i think brown ir norris may be capable.

On a contender it's much less likely. A lot may ride on Stuz being able be that guy, or the sens getting fortunate in the draft in 2021. (Aatu Raty anyone?)

Not sure this has any merit. Tierney is a centre and Duclair is a winger. The centre dynamic has not changed since Pageau was traded and likley won't change until Norris or someone takes a step forward.

Tierney is a glorified space holder. Always left out of depth chart projections for a reason. He doesn't do any that well and is easily replaceable.

It's fine to have him in for this season, but I would not expect a career making year.

On a developing team i think brown ir norris may be capable.

On a contender it's much less likely. A lot may ride on Stuz being able be that guy, or the sens getting fortunate in the draft in 2021. (Aatu Raty anyone?)
- david22

I don't think anyone in the right mind thinks Brown or Norris are going to be true #1 centres. They may max out at a Kyle Turris ceiling as can be a #1C on a team with good wingers, but isn't actually a #1C. Love to be wrong, but look around the league and look at most of the elite centres. Most didn't need years of seasoning in the minors. However, the door has never been more open at a position. They need to take it if they are capable.

The plan maybe to make Stuzle into a 1C. That's fine but I feel a little risky given his played wing recently. We shall see.

Raty seems like a promising prospect should we bomb again.

Tierny is a serviceable player and is great as a placeholder. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. He's not going to be here long term. Once the kids develop, I'd suspect he'll be gone.

Brown/Norris/Stutzle/White/Chlapik (not in any specific order) seem to be the future C's on this team. Although I think at least one will move to wing either part time or long term.

To me the question still remains of why they didn't resign Duclair... Yes, he asked for too much money, but there was room for negotiations and would have been nothing but a positive for this team moving forward.

I know for me, since he seems to be having a hard time in free agency, I still hope they circle back to him

I don't think anyone in the right mind thinks Brown or Norris are going to be true #1 centres. They may max out at a Kyle Turris ceiling as can be a #1C on a team with good wingers, but isn't actually a #1C. Love to be wrong, but look around the league and look at most of the elite centres. Most didn't need years of seasoning in the minors. However, the door has never been more open at a position. They need to take it if they are capable.

The plan maybe to make Stuzle into a 1C. That's fine but I feel a little risky given his played wing recently. We shall see.

Raty seems like a promising prospect should we bomb again.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I agree with everything you said.

And therein lies the problem, I can't think of any team that's won the cup without a true number 1 center.

Nashville came close, but lost to Pittsburgh. Perhaps Ottawa can be an exception, with 2-3 good centers, and an elite Defence. I think Dorion is trying to emulate Nashville's model to some degree, building through an elite D-core.

I agree with everything you said.

And therein lies the problem, I can't think of any team that's won the cup without a true number 1 center.

Nashville came close, but lost to Pittsburgh. Perhaps Ottawa can be an exception, with 2-3 good centers, and an elite Defence. I think Dorion is trying to emulate Nashville's model to some degree, building through an elite D-core.
- david22

Ya. It's still surprising looking back the draft at the centres that were passed on, not that they were guaranteed #1C's but have a higher ceiling than anyone in the Sens system.

Maybe there is a plan in place to address it at next years draft or through trade but you can't win without elite centres. St. Louis might be an exception too but everyone seems to call O'Reilly one of the best centres in the game now.

Tierny is a serviceable player and is great as a placeholder. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. He's not going to be here long term. Once the kids develop, I'd suspect he'll be gone.

Brown/Norris/Stutzle/White/Chlapik (not in any specific order) seem to be the future C's on this team. Although I think at least one will move to wing either part time or long term.

To me the question still remains of why they didn't resign Duclair... Yes, he asked for too much money, but there was room for negotiations and would have been nothing but a positive for this team moving forward.

I know for me, since he seems to be having a hard time in free agency, I still hope they circle back to him
- Maverick1818

Chalapik has always intrigued me. Whenever he is called up he looks natural on NHL ice. Doesn't lag behind or over-compensate like many call ups. The results just haven't been there. Wonder how much longer his rope is.

For Duclair, there is 100% more to the story than we are being told. If the Sens had zero intentions of working negotiations with him, he should have been traded at the deadline. To think it was as simple as Duclair asking for too much and the Sens not really negotiating after seems like a stretch. However, Dorion did seem to leave all his negotiations until the 11th hour, so who really knows.

There has always been a serious lack of quality investigative journalism for the Sens to uncover sketchy situations. That guy at the Ottawa Sun tried on Melnyk but failed massively on fact checking.

Chalapik has always intrigued me. Whenever he is called up he looks natural on NHL ice. Doesn't lag behind or over-compensate like many call ups. The results just haven't been there. Wonder how much longer his rope is.

For Duclair, there is 100% more to the story than we are being told. If the Sens had zero intentions of working negotiations with him, he should have been traded at the deadline. To think it was as simple as Duclair asking for too much and the Sens not really negotiating after seems like a stretch. However, Dorion did seem to leave all his negotiations until the 11th hour, so who really knows.

There has always been a serious lack of quality investigative journalism for the Sens to uncover sketchy situations. That guy at the Ottawa Sun tried on Melnyk but failed massively on fact checking.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I know when I lived in Charlottetown, The big story for the Charlottetown Islanders was Daniel Sprong, I was never impressed to be honest, he could score, but always used the same move and he seemed kind of lazy... Reminded me a lot of Yashin.

But I was also extremely impressed more by Chlapik every game. I couldn't agree more with your assessment of him on NHL ice. it does seem natural. I think he's kind of the forgotten prospect to most people.

Whatever the story is, i wish it would come out. Duclair proved he can score, can skate almost as fast as Hoffman, was the most positive guy on the team and I think could have been here long term. The fact that they didn't even try negotiating with him is very telling. But it's also poor management that is they had no intention of signing him that they didn't trade him and at least get something back.

Again I still hope he circles back to Ottawa before next season starts.

As for any situations with the Sens, I get journalism will bring that out but I think a lot of it should stay internal. The more that gets out the more this team looks unprofessional. I'm sure there's lots from all teams that never gets out.

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I agree with everything you said.
And therein lies the problem, I can't think of any team that's won the cup without a true number 1 center.
- david22

That's because no team has won a Stanley Cup without a true #1C since before the lockout in 2004/05. It's also precisely the reason why I was hoping they would come out of this year's draft with one of Byfield or Rossi. Trying to build a championship team around a 'kind-of' #1C, or a converted winger just doesn't work. Having a strong blue line helps, but at the end of the day you need a scoring line that can lead the charge, and break through when it counts against high-end defensive players. Now there are examples of guys like Bergeron or Point who can do that who weren't high-end 1st round picks, but they're rare compared to .

I'm trying very hard to remain open-minded about Stutzle as a potential #1C, but the fact that they seem to be fully prepared to start his NHL career on the wing really concerns me. I'd far rather see him playing #2C minutes behind Tierney, then competing with Tkachuk for #1LW minutes.

Ya. It's still surprising looking back the draft at the centres that were passed on, not that they were guaranteed #1C's but have a higher ceiling than anyone in the Sens system.

Maybe there is a plan in place to address it at next years draft or through trade but you can't win without elite centres. St. Louis might be an exception too but everyone seems to call O'Reilly one of the best centres in the game now.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

How many elite centers are in the league. This center conversation is getting ridiculous.

That's because no team has won a Stanley Cup without a true #1C since before the lockout in 2004/05. It's also precisely the reason why I was hoping they would come out of this year's draft with one of Byfield or Rossi. Trying to build a championship team around a 'kind-of' #1C, or a converted winger just doesn't work. Having a strong blue line helps, but at the end of the day you need a scoring line that can lead the charge, and break through when it counts against high-end defensive players. Now there are examples of guys like Bergeron or Point who can do that who weren't high-end 1st round picks, but they're rare compared to .

I'm trying very hard to remain open-minded about Stutzle as a potential #1C, but the fact that they seem to be fully prepared to start his NHL career on the wing really concerns me. I'd far rather see him playing #2C minutes behind Tierney, then competing with Tkachuk for #1LW minutes.

....and rarely can you trade for a true #1C - had the chance to draft potential ones this year and went for "Character" guys. Thought Rossi should have been our #5 pick, or took a chance on Lapierre to address this obvious need and then draft D-men in the second round.

How many elite centers are in the league. This center conversation is getting ridiculous.
- way i c it

They don't have to be generational talents like Crosby/McDavid, but need to be a lot better than Brown/Norris. Off-hand, the list would include:
McDavid, Crosby, Eichel, MacKinnon, Bergeron, Point, Scheifele, Barkov, Pettersson, O'Reilly, Backstrom, Toews, Aho, Matthews, and Barzal. You could add Tavares, Malkin, and Draisaitl, who just happen to be on teams with a #1C already. You may see the likes of Byfield, Rossi, and Hughes added to that list in time, but we'll see how that plays out. Guys like Duchene, Seguin, Couturier, Monahan, and Zibanejad are also in the conversation, though you could argue they're limited enough to be considered more of a #2C.

Regardless, the point is that at least 1/2 of the league has someone filling this role who is leaps and bounds ahead of anything the Senators have in their current system - unless they successfully transition Stutzle. So I hope they're serious about that development process, because #1C is the wrong position to leave to chance if you're serious about Stanley Cup contention.

How many elite centers are in the league. This center conversation is getting ridiculous.
- way i c it

Not many, so it should be important to get one of them no?

How is the conversation ridiculous when it's been proven time and time again a true #1C is crucial for team success? Of course you have to have other pieces. Edmonton has two elite centers and can't get even close to being an elite team.

That's because no team has won a Stanley Cup without a true #1C since before the lockout in 2004/05. It's also precisely the reason why I was hoping they would come out of this year's draft with one of Byfield or Rossi. Trying to build a championship team around a 'kind-of' #1C, or a converted winger just doesn't work. Having a strong blue line helps, but at the end of the day you need a scoring line that can lead the charge, and break through when it counts against high-end defensive players. Now there are examples of guys like Bergeron or Point who can do that who weren't high-end 1st round picks, but they're rare compared to .

I'm trying very hard to remain open-minded about Stutzle as a potential #1C, but the fact that they seem to be fully prepared to start his NHL career on the wing really concerns me. I'd far rather see him playing #2C minutes behind Tierney, then competing with Tkachuk for #1LW minutes.
- khawk

I still find it an interesting level of confidence that Stutzle can indeed be a true #1 centre when the team doesn't actually know what position he will play for the team and seem more than content at starting him on the wing. I don't recall a true #1 centre starting his NHL career on the wing...

The team is still in a rebuild, so it's not a huge whole right now, but if the team becomes competitive but can't get over the hump, it could be the obvious hole.

Why Mike we don t have the 2D logo already ?

Not many, so it should be important to get one of them no?

How is the conversation ridiculous when it's been proven time and time again a true #1C is crucial for team success? Of course you have to have other pieces. Edmonton has two elite centers and can't get even close to being an elite team.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Lots of centers in the league are just very good because they play with just good players. They become elite when they play with elite players. I can live with very good if it applies to my top 9 Fs.

Lots of centers in the league are just very good because they play with just good players. They become elite when they play with elite players. I can live with very good if it applies to my top 9 Fs.
- granpa

Well, if you read my zillion comments , you will see my mention of Kyle Turris playing in a 1C role and doing ok due to the wingers he had.

Elite players do not become elite due to elite players. You are either elite or good. Is McDavid not elite without Draisaitl? Vice versa?

I know when I lived in Charlottetown, The big story for the Charlottetown Islanders was Daniel Sprong, I was never impressed to be honest, he could score, but always used the same move and he seemed kind of lazy... Reminded me a lot of Yashin.

But I was also extremely impressed more by Chlapik every game. I couldn't agree more with your assessment of him on NHL ice. it does seem natural. I think he's kind of the forgotten prospect to most people.

Whatever the story is, i wish it would come out. Duclair proved he can score, can skate almost as fast as Hoffman, was the most positive guy on the team and I think could have been here long term. The fact that they didn't even try negotiating with him is very telling. But it's also poor management that is they had no intention of signing him that they didn't trade him and at least get something back.

Again I still hope he circles back to Ottawa before next season starts.

As for any situations with the Sens, I get journalism will bring that out but I think a lot of it should stay internal. The more that gets out the more this team looks unprofessional. I'm sure there's lots from all teams that never gets out.
- Maverick1818

I don’t know what Duclair was thinking in firing his agent to negotiate on his own. Obviously he thought he could do just a good of job and pocket the agents 10% commission. Right now that looks like it was a very bad decision for a multitude of reasons.

Duclair has to hold the NHL record for starting a career playing for 4 different teams in his first 5 seasons. Now it will be 5 teams in 6 years. He desperately needs some stability by staying with a team for a few years. He had that opportunity with the Senators but unfortunately he overvalued his worth to the point Ottawa ended negotiations, advised him to hire an agent and cut him free. Why did so many teams get rid of him so quickly? We will never know but there must be some serious issues with him.

Duclair had a great first half of the season but a disastrous second half where he only scored 2 goals! His value dropped dramatically, all teams must be asking which Duclair are we getting? Why would they give him a big contract with this uncertainty?

Duclair also picked the worst possible time to play hard ball. Covid 19 is a disaster for all sports teams. It resulted in a shortened NHL season and a frozen salary cap. An agent would have explained this is not the time to try for a home run contract. The salary cap for next year at best will stay the same but probably drop with shut downs coming in Canada and the US. Duclair will not get anything close to what he could have gotten from Pierre Dorion. There is zero chance Ottawa will bring him back after all the free agent signings done so far.

If I was Duclair I would look at a 2 year show me what you can do contract. Hopefully by then there is a vaccine available to all and fans can attend games.

They don't have to be generational talents like Crosby/McDavid, but need to be a lot better than Brown/Norris. Off-hand, the list would include:
McDavid, Crosby, Eichel, MacKinnon, Bergeron, Point, Scheifele, Barkov, Pettersson, O'Reilly, Backstrom, Toews, Aho, Matthews, and Barzal. You could add Tavares, Malkin, and Draisaitl, who just happen to be on teams with a #1C already. You may see the likes of Byfield, Rossi, and Hughes added to that list in time, but we'll see how that plays out. Guys like Duchene, Seguin, Couturier, Monahan, and Zibanejad are also in the conversation, though you could argue they're limited enough to be considered more of a #2C.

Regardless, the point is that at least 1/2 of the league has someone filling this role who is leaps and bounds ahead of anything the Senators have in their current system - unless they successfully transition Stutzle. So I hope they're serious about that development process, because #1C is the wrong position to leave to chance if you're serious about Stanley Cup contention.
- khawk

Let's not get carried away here we're talking elite centers. There's about 10 elite centers in the league and they play for 5 or 6 teams. So there's about 25 teams that don't have an elite center. After Crosby, McDavid, Draisaitl, Eichel, Matthews, McKinnon, Backstrom, Tavares, Malkin plus 1 more, the rest on the list are very good but not elite. They're approximately 55-65 pts average per 82 games and others haven't played enough games to make the list. If that's how we gauge a #1C then I'm not worried for the Sens. Most of our top center prospects are not in the NHL so I'm sure that one of Brown, Norris, Pinto or future pick can develop into a 65pt solid 200ft center.

Let's not get carried away here we're talking elite centers. There's about 10 elite centers in the league and they play for 5 or 6 teams. So there's about 25 teams that don't have an elite center. After Crosby, McDavid, Draisaitl, Eichel, Matthews, McKinnon, Backstrom, Tavares, Malkin plus 1 more, the rest on the list are very good but not elite. They're approximately 55-65 pts average per 82 games and others haven't played enough games to make the list. If that's how we gauge a #1C then I'm not worried for the Sens. Most of our top center prospects are not in the NHL so I'm sure that one of Brown, Norris, Pinto or future pick can develop into a 65pt solid 200ft center.
- granpa

If your 1C isn't putting up a point per game clip, then someone else has to be. Right now, I'm not sure there is a player in the system capable of that. Stutzle is probably the closest, and he may end up being a centre. Who knows.

While its' important to have a well-rounded roster, it's also important to have guys that can score, seemingly, at will. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to address an obvious glaring hole in the roster and put your eggs in Brown, Norris, Pinto, etc basket. Sens are at the start of a rebuild. The purpose of that is develop players at key positions to be an elite team. If the Sens were a competitive team, they could try to duct tape that position, but that isn't the case.